In court, CEO Sundar Pichai defends Google against the DOJ’s ‘extraordinary’ proposals – NPR
2025-04-30T18:04:28Z
Sundar Pichai testified in the remedies trial that will determine which penalties Google will face for monopolizing the search engine market, calling the DOJ’s proposals a “de facto divestiture” of the company’s tech.
In court, CEO Sundar Pichai defends Google against the DOJ’s ‘extraordinary’ proposals
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Alphabet CEO Sundar Pichai testified in federal court Wednesday that a Justice Department proposal that would force Google to share its search data, including with competitors, would be a “de facto divestiture” of the company’s search engine, which took decades of investment and innovation to build.
He called the Justice Department’s proposal “so far-reaching, so extraordinary” that it feels as though the government is asking for a sell-off of the company’s core intellectual property. He said it’s unclear how Google could go on to fund innovation if its work is to be given away at marginal cost.
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Pichai, 52, addressed the court from the witness box wearing a neat, dark suit during the second week of the remedies trial that will determine which penalties U.S. District Judge Amit Mehta will levy against the nearly $2 trillion company. Almost a year ago, Mehta ruled that Google had acted illegally to maintain a monopoly on the search engine market.
When it filed its original case in 2020, the Justice Department took aim at Google’s contracts with device makers like Apple and Samsung, which made the company’s search engine the default on new phones. The department argued that this unfairly boxed out competitors, and it’s asking Mehta to rule that Google must stop paying for exclusive default placements.
The government also wants Google to spin off its Chrome browser, arguing the world’s most popular browser powers the tech company’s advertising business by harvesting data from user activity on Chrome and Google search. Splitting this off would create more competition within the online search market, the Justice Department argues.
This phase of the trial has also focused heavily on Google’s artificial intelligence products, like its Gemini chatbot. The Justice Department has argued that Google has created a system in which its control of search gives an advantage to its AI products, while its AI products direct more users back to Google search. This, the department argues, is a cycle that maintains the tech company’s dominance and blocks competitors out of both marketplaces. And to break it, the department argues that Google should be ordered to license its search data — such as users’ search terms and results — to other companies.
The Justice Department wrapped its case on Tuesday afternoon, and Google is now presenting evidence and calling experts and witnesses to testify, which will include more executives from Google, Mozilla and Apple. Google maintains that it will appeal Mehta’s underlying ruling once the penalty phase of the trial is over.
Pichai, who joined Google in 2004, held many roles at the company before taking the top gig, including overseeing Chrome.
The theme of his testimony was of little surprise, as the tech giant has long argued that the Justice Department’s proposed remedies are both dangerous and “unprecedented” and would hurt American consumers, the economy and tech innovation. The testimony focused on how Google views the development of AI and how it is innovating the technology.
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“AI is one of the most profound technologies humans will ever work on,” Pichai said. He testified that Google has spent roughly $49 billion on AI research and development and is considered one of the top two or three companies in the world spending in this space.
When Pichai took the helm of Alphabet, Google’s parent company, he directed the company to become “AI first” and to invest deeply in this technology, believing that people are not just looking for information on the internet but seeking to get things done. AI can do that, he said.
The company integrates AI into many products but first wove the technology into Google’s search engine, where it led to a major improvement in the quality of search, he said.
Mehta asked Pichai how he sees AI disrupting search in just a few years. AI “will deeply transform” Google search, Pichai replied, and the way it will evolve will be very profound.
Pichai called this a “dynamic moment” when a number of newly developed chatbots are reaching tens of thousands of users each day. Pichai said that Google views its AI chatbot, Gemini, as a leading model in the industry but that still a “big gap” remains between them and what he views as the market leader: OpenAI’s ChatGPT.
In court, Google’s lawyers have previously argued that ChatGPT and Meta’s Meta AI chatbots outstrip Gemini’s popularity, evidence that Google is not dominating in this marketplace.
Pichai said that there is a lot of competition in this space and that ultimately “the best product will win the marketplace.”
The Justice Department had previously called Nick Turley, OpenAI’s head of product for ChatGPT, to the stand to make the company’s case for why it fears that Google’s monopoly on search could ultimately creep into the AI market. Turley testified that the company wants access to Google’s search index and data to improve its own technology. Google’s search index is basically a giant database of the pages and information on the internet. When you type a query into Google’s search engine, it scans this database to return links to webpages.
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But AI developers can also use databases like these to train large language models, like chatbots, so that they can generate humanlike responses and engage in conversations.
Turley testified that after ChatGPT became a viral hit, OpenAI tried to develop its own search index, but it was too expensive and time-consuming. Instead, he said, it sought a partnership with a third-party provider — and Google rebuffed the company.
Google’s attorneys are expected to call witnesses through the end of next week, and closing arguments will be made at the end of May. Mehta is expected to make a decision by August.
Google is a financial supporter of NPR.
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